EVENT Host: Our guest is George Lewycky, an amateur astronomer who used the Hubble Space Telescope to study the atmosphere of Titan, a moon of Saturn. Govega: George, tell us first about why you decided to go for this project G Lewycky: it looked like a challenge and learning experience Govega: Why Titan though? G Lewycky: titan fascinated me with its earth-like similarities. both its chemistry and atmosphere OldDobMan: George- Tell us about the chemistry...I am a chemist LoupdeMort: about how long ago did you begin your study? Pegasus77: George, now, how did you use the Hubble??? G Lewycky: it is nitrogen dominated, has a greenhouse effect, methane behaves in a triple point much like our own water Govega: Is it true that Titan is the only other object with a substanstial atmosphere other than the Earth? G Lewycky: I appied to use the hubble with a proposal G Lewycky: sorry!! but the amateur program was stopped about a yr ago G Lewycky: other observatories are hosting amateurs though Pegasus77: brb Govega: How long did it take to do the paperwork for the proposal? G Lewycky: 7 months!!! Govega: Wow! G Lewycky: yikes Govega: Talk about perserverence! EVENT Host: ! G Lewycky: once the discovery factor came it time wasnt a factor NebM42: Hello all! Govega: Were you surprised when they picked your proposal? G Lewycky: I had inside information!!! but i rcvd the first letter on april fools day!!!!! LoupdeMort: Do you have to live in Baltimore to use Hubble? G Lewycky: telling me i was a finalist G Lewycky: nope....i live in NJ..... Govega: Laugh, on April Fools Day G Lewycky: the hubble is all pre-pogrammed observers usually arent there for their observations G Lewycky: on tape.... Govega: Interesting! G Lewycky: but I was there for the observation and the data was arriving real time LoupdeMort: Video? Govega: But you were there, right? G Lewycky: yep....but the shuttle hogged the TDRS on me Govega: What happened? G Lewycky: I had lower priority than the shuttle!!! OldDobMan: The nerve LoupdeMort: What is the TDRS? G Lewycky: guess the human factor Govega: Also, you were in there around the time of the COSTAR fix to the Hubble, right? G Lewycky: tracking and data relay satt Tash2: tracking and data relay satellite EVENT Host: George - how did you analyze the data? G Lewycky: no this was the orginal hubble I used G Lewycky: i had hi resolution ultraviolet spectra of Titan G Lewycky: and i had to remove all the solar lines from my spectrum G Lewycky: to determine what is really Titan's G Lewycky: the amount of data I had to acquire and find was outrageous G Lewycky: Everyone from harvard, navy, air force to general motors were contact G Lewycky: for data and spectra EVENT Host: Our guest is George Lewycky, an amateur astronomer who used the Hubble Space Telescope to study the atmosphere of Titan, a moon of Saturn. LoupdeMort: How do you analize spectra data to draw conclusions? G Lewycky: I had to match the spectra and compare it with solar spectra and what doesnt match one can assume is noise or a real absorption G Lewycky: I had to learn a new set of software called IRAF and a new computer system to use it on G Lewycky: oops.....I told them what to observe and which insturment and they programmed it and i sat back and watched the data returned to me...... G Lewycky: after my proposal was accepted i had to determine the instrument, filter, exposures, etc. so they could program it Pegasus77: So, another words, you ask them what to do and use, and they return the info on your screen G Lewycky: real time observations are rare (comet crash,etc) are special exceptions Pegasus77: Who do you contact for this G Lewycky: yes...it was given to me on tape actually but i saw some real time data arriving and they printed it for me in the observation room G Lewycky: it had to get callibrated, etc. before i could do anything with the data Pegasus77: Now who do you have to contact an order to use the Hubble G Lewycky: i had two levels to deal with....Amateur AStronomer working group and space telescope science institute G Lewycky: let me reiterate..amateurs CAN'T apply anymore....funding and suprisingly a low reponse ended the program for us amateurs Pegasus77: So you were lucky OldDobMan: George- Low response? G Lewycky: it was more than luck....it was a lot of work and preperation G Lewycky: few amateurs submitted proposals and few knew about it Tash2: if we boosted funding back up do you think there would be a possiblitly that they might bring the program back? or was there just not enough intrest to carry things through? EVENT Host: Geroge - I didn't even know they had an amateur program G Lewycky: i'm invovled with others to improve it and maybe reinstate it OldDobMan: Any H2O up there on Titan G Lewycky: i found out about this in astronomy magazine back in 1990 G Lewycky: nope....no water there EVENT Host: George - Did you ever find the CH>2O? Govega: Great, George, I will have to think of a proposal now G Lewycky: still dont know yet.....i'm waiting for more solar data from harvard and some free time to make a final determination G Lewycky: their is a mission to saturn and my baby Titan being launched in October....the Cassini mission...it will drop a probe into Titan!!!! G Lewycky: i have a web site with images, etc. G Lewycky: www.princeton.edu/~georgel/hubble.html G Lewycky: did anyone see me in Sky & Tel ?? Tash2: which issue? G Lewycky: june EVENT Host: I did - I have it right here in front of me! :) MtnDewMan: I saw you G Lewycky: great!!!! Tash2: have it right here NebM42: What issue? G Lewycky: june NebM42: My picture of the Moon will be posted in Astronomy magizine next month! G Lewycky: great...I'll look for the moon photo OldDobMan: Neb---Wow! G Lewycky: does anyone wanna know why I'm looking for a stinky gas on Titan ?? OldDobMan: yes I saw the article about the Hubble amateur program NeutronSTAR: Has Mr Lewycky already discussed what the gasses were around Titan EVENT Host: Ok George - Why? :) SYSTEM Greeter: "ReBeLz" has left the room OldDobMan: Becuase you like H2S?? NebM42: I use a Custamized 8" Orion dob. It has a home made motor mount on it, with a control center. The CS has Digital Setting Circles, witch could be sincronized with the motor mount, and I have a ccd G Lewycky: ok...i found a connection with Hydrogen Cyanide (discovered by Voyager 1) and formaldehyde..when the two combine purines needed for adenine are formed...which can form DNA!!!!!! EVENT Host: George - hasn't the line for formaldehyde been discovered in deep space? Outside of our solar system? G Lewycky: yes...interstellar medium and comets also!!!! NeutronSTAR: So G Lewycky, the atmostphere on Titan right now is toxic G Lewycky: yes...BUT so was Earth's in its early stages OldDobMan: George If they have a greenhouse effect ..what the surface temp G Lewycky: 92 Kelvin....quite cold OldDobMan: 92K makes Mount Everst sounds like Hell(o) EVENT Host: I wonder if there's any CH2O in those slushball comets that are hitting us? G Lewycky: Titan's similarites with Earth really got me hooked on studying it OldDobMan: Event- No, just DNA G Lewycky: comets have CH2O...yes NeutronSTAR: good point Host G Lewycky: funny twist...I was wondering what were the odds of a comet crashing Titan the day of my observation....year later SL9 crashed Juipiter!!!!! NeutronSTAR: Can you estimate how thick the atmosphere on Titan is? G Lewycky: its very thick....Voyager couldnt even crack it!!!!! Pegasus77: Does Titan have volcanoes, or even water G Lewycky: thats why they're sending a probe G Lewycky: theories speculate about volcanoes NeutronSTAR: Is the atmosphere crystals? G Lewycky: radar reflectivity from earth surmised oceans and continents like Earth...once again G Lewycky: crystals??? NeutronSTAR: at 92 K wouldn't the gas surrounding the planet's atmosphere be crystalized? G Lewycky: hmmmmmmmm G Lewycky: upper and middle atmosphere no.....lower we dont know??? OldDobMan: My cryogenics book is at work...sorry Tash2: what are the main components of the atmosphere? NeutronSTAR: lol G Lewycky: its mostly gas..........at such a low temp very little excitement of the atoms occurs....... G Lewycky: N2, Ch4, CO, CO2, HCN NeutronSTAR: but usually at those cold temperatures gases are solids, that's why I asked Pegasus77: HOW MANY DAYS DID YOUR OBSERVATION TAKE? G Lewycky: CH4 is characteristic much like our own water....being in a triple point state....solid, liquid & gas OldDobMan: well if the pressure is low...they could be vapor NeutronSTAR: true oldDob G Lewycky: 4.5 hours was my observation...spacecraft and observation time G Lewycky: -10 points NeutronSTAR: Any pollution? G Lewycky: it was a dream meeting Toby Owen and many others at JPL 2 weeks after my observation EVENT Host: George - how much longer do you think it will take to finish analyzing the data? Tash2: ok.. if y'all could look at one thing through a 101 inch telescope, what would you look at? EVENT Host: George - what type of equipment do you use when not on the HST? G Lewycky: binoculars 10x50, jason and meade scope EVENT Host: George - how much longer to finish the data? Tash2: lemme re-ask.. what's the avg temp in the atmosphere? (is it also 92K?) G Lewycky: under a year i hope....my career and personal life have been on a roller coaster the last 2 ys G Lewycky: my science paper is 70% complete G Lewycky: documenting everything is a BIG processs EVENT Host: George - was it much more involved than you anticipated? G Lewycky: oh yeah...spectroscopy of an atmosphere in the UV was very difficult and involved many areas G Lewycky: i'd do imaging if it happened again!!!!!!! G Lewycky: people can email me with other questions at: lewycky@idt.net Buy Jupiter: George, who at STScI was your main contact? EVENT Host: George - have you heard that some British group wants to put up an orbital platform for amateurs? G Lewycky: pete reppert and keith noll OldDobMan: George- I guess if we can't see thru the atmosphere, it must be cloudy (condensed methane in a nitrogen atnoshpere?) G Lewycky: yeah they emailed me about their idea EVENT Host: George - was it legit? G Lewycky: yep......ch4 makes it hard to penetrate G Lewycky: only for professionals at the moment princess G Lewycky: the amateur program was stopped recently G Lewycky: other observatories allow amatuer use PrincessAfar: That is too bad after your discovery. G Lewycky: yerkes and others recently sponsored amateurs Buy Jupiter: I hear tell that Lick also opens for amateurs now and again. G Lewycky: me central........i used to work in Mahwah...yikes Tash2: McDonald Observatory does a bit G Lewycky: yeah after hubble it seems other observatories are sponsoring amatuers EVENT Host: I think Mt Wilson allows amateur use on a 24" scope PrincessAfar: I think that is is a good idea. G Lewycky: did everyone see the article in june's sky & Tel about the program ?? Buy Jupiter: I did. OldDobMan: Yup George G Lewycky: i can hold out till 11 !!!! Tash2: i'm not completely sure but i think that i may get the use the 101 inch tele @ McDonald (got invited to go) or at least look through it... OldDobMan: I'd like to look thru Polomar some day G Lewycky: sky & tel and other prof's are researching other means for amateurs to use prof. obsevatories......i was invitied to go but couldnt make it...... Tash2: of course with my luck, i will pick the one night in the entire year that it will be cloudy out in west tex! PrincessAfar: After the early astronomers saw and found with their naked eyes. Amatuers in my opinion have a lot they can offer I think. G Lewycky: astronomy is a field of science that amateurs have a LARGE involvement in......... G Lewycky: and many organziation and prof's realize that value PrincessAfar: really? I am only learning about it now. I took a college class and loved it. Buy Jupiter: For example, amateur observations of Mars are being used to help with the 2 space probes that are on the way. LgQ'TiNy Go: so.....since you are all so hyper in here~ PrincessAfar: I remember learning about your discovery in my class. G Lewycky: yes don parker does alot of work and several other amateurs are well invovled on a prof level G Lewycky: what class princess????? PrincessAfar: lol . I'll say! PrincessAfar: Astronomy last semester - OldDobMan: Buy Jup - How can amateurs help on MARS probe??? EVENT Host: George - what do you think of these cosmic slushballs that are hitting us at a rate of 43k per day? G Lewycky: i just heard that today.....dont think its a burden since most fall in the ocean and antarctic i believe PrincessAfar: Yes. I was amazed to see how many precious elements they have though - solsys: that is one of the reasons mining these are a good idea.. G Lewycky: comets and asteroids carry vital compounds thru our solar system........i strongly believe an asteroid did in the dinosaurs!!!! solsys: George, what is your belief as to how much of the surface is covered with liquid? How deep? G Lewycky: i wish i knew.......how deep it was.... G Lewycky: cassini with its probe and radar should give us an answer solsys: they have talked about several hundred meters in spots... OldDobMan: Even what you don't see G Lewycky: radar from earth determined oceans and continents on titan!!! solsys: that is true George.. the early and later radar work didn't give us a lot of help PrincessAfar: But how can there be oceans if it is so cold G L? Do you think that once it was warmer? solsys: mixture of chemicals.. like antifreeze G Lewycky: it rains methane there....methane is like our own water on earth PrincessAfar: This is facinating stuff. G Lewycky: its so earthlike which got me hooked on titan!!!!!!!! PrincessAfar: So you are saying that there are oceans on Titan? G Lewycky: we know solsys: lakes??? PrincessAfar: But no life. solsys: don't jump to conclusions.... PrincessAfar: ok. I can wait and wait . OldDobMan: Titan is liquified natural gas (LNG) G Lewycky: the chemistry is there!!!! lifeforms i doubt it...titan resembles early earth when all it was was just chemicals G Lewycky: hey you should see my email trailer "I'd rather be on Titan" !!!!! G Lewycky: july 4th mars landers lands PrincessAfar: Oh - solsys: George do you have a web site (sorry late)? G Lewycky: www.princeton.edu/~georgel/hubble.html PrincessAfar: I will see your site for sure G L. PrincessAfar: How long were you an amatuer G L before you made this discovery? PrincessAfar: solsys, I was not happy about the Challenger outcome and the decision of the NASA officials to let it fly. G Lewycky: many agree with you on that one......i felt a loss of family that day solsys: it was an unfortunate thing but you should realize this is not the last accident.. things like that happen (you don't want them to but..) PrincessAfar: It was very sad. Especially when they knew those O rings were bad G Lewycky: alot of politics!!!!!!!!!! Tash2: that was a traumatic experience! (i was only 6) PrincessAfar: But when they can be stopped, that is another issue all together in my opinion. Yes, politics solsys: yes... political expediency to get the flight under way, etc. PrincessAfar: Yep Tash2: it would have been their 7th delay... the media pressure and political pressure on those NASA officials was very great... it was stupid to launch at such a low temperature, it was even worse to G Lewycky: chow ...nice chatting with you all solsys: George I want to thank you for being here...... MtnDewMan: thanks for being here with us tonight George Tash2: thanks for the info and great chat george!